4 posts in one day...wow

[sessifet]

I'm idly sculling the internet, and I come across a cfers vs parents discussion. It's not a current discussion, and it's the usual thing. We have the rabid cfers making me want to scream 'Stop being on my side!' and the rabid parents/parents-to-be that just...break my brain (in fact, both sides break my brain).

(And of course, somewhere in between you have the sensible people trying to have a somewhat sensible and polite discussion amidst the screams of 'crotchdropping', 'moo', 'childhater' and 'baby killer'.)

All in all, it's something I've seen happen over and over again, and it never gets resolved. However, one thing bugs me to no end. In most of these discussions, chances are someone (either a parent or a wannabee parent, or just a random passerby) will pop up and make the following inane statement:
What if your parents had been childfree, huh? Or words to that effect.

It's a statement (or a rhetorical question, to be more precise) which confuses the heck out of me. It doesn't make sense! It brings nothing to the discussion. It doesn't make me ponder the deeper meaning. All it does is make me go 'Whu?' and possibly slam my head against the wall if it's been a particularly trying day.

My mum would say: 'Dit slaat als een lul in een bord pap.' And I'm terribly sorry, but it doesn't have an English equivalent as far as I know. If it does, pleeeeease tell me, because I'd love to have it in my comeback arsenal. (Why? Because it's a bit more absurd than 'Dit slaat als een tang op een varken' which does have an equivalent: 'And what does that have to do with the price of fish?')

Anyway. Let's take the question at face value:

Question: What if your parents had been childfree?

Answer: I would not have been born.

Result: We would not be having this discussion.

However, since my parents were not childfree, we are having this discussion. (The screeching noise you hear in the background is me applying the mental handbrake, to prevent my brain from spiraling down into the gaping abyss of pointless circular reasoning.)

So what do the people who use this question expect? It's usually accompanied by smirkies, as if they know there is no valid response to it. Is it supposed to dumbfound cfers (and the undecided) to such an extent they'll go 'Durrr. I don't have a comeback to that, so I suppose I should rethink this entire childfree thing.'?

What do they want? What are they trying to say? No matter how many times I turn this question over in my mind, it won't fit. There is nothing which makes a connection. Nothing which gives me a handle. It doesn't add to the discussion. It is not a valid point. It's about as valid as saying 'What if your dad hadn't had a penis?'.

See, my mum and dad were anything but childfree. They wanted kids. In fact, they wanted a big family. If it had been up to them, my and my sister would have had a whole bunch of siblings. Nature decided otherwise, though, and therefore there are only two of us.

Would I have liked more siblings? Perhaps. It'd have meant more playmates, but also less chance of hogging all the LEGO. Would we have been as happy as a family of, say, 8 as we were as a family of 4? I don't know. Am I grateful that they had us and were good parents? Yes. Very much so.

But am I, as the question seems to suggest, supposed to be so grateful my mum and dad weren't childfree that I should have children too? That'd be like saying I should become a phychiatric nurse because my mum was one too. Or a chemical analyst because my dad was one too. In fact I should do all the jobs they did over the years, because after all, those jobs paid for my food, and education and everything, because otherwise I'd be ungrateful. Should I also try and fulfill their dreams out of gratefulness?

Yeah, that'd go down well with my mum (and my friends). I can see it now:
Me: 'Hey mum, I won't be moving to the UK after all.'
Mum: 'No?'
Me: 'Nope. I'll be moving to deepest darkest Africa to become a nurse. Now I just need to find a partner who will come with me.'
Mum: '......'
Me: You know? Like you and dad wanted to, but never did because you didn't know you both wanted to do that until you were married for 20 years?'
Mum: '......'
Mum: 'Do you still want your inheritance, or shall I cut you out of my will now?'

So no, not happening. (Also: I'm fairly sure dad would come and haunt me if I did something like that; and while I have no problems with ghosts and stuff like that, the thought of dad floating through our house and possibly seeing me read slash fiction is just...no.)

Ahem. Moving on.

Is the fact that I am childfree somehow an insult to my parents? See, this is where I run into a wall. If the answer's no, I can move on to the next question. If the answer's yes, then please hand me a bucket and a scrubbing brush, because my head just exploded from the stupid.

Or is it just empty fluff? They don't know what to say, or don't want to spend time thinking up a rational argument? If that's the case, why not just yell 'Boobies' and walk away, unless of course they enjoy watching various sane people start foaming at the mouth, and making long ranty LJ posts about it :)

In conclusion:

If anyone does have an idea what the prupose of this question is, or can think of a suitable comeback, I'd be very grateful. Now, if you'll excuse me, there is a rather lovely Pirates of the Caribbean fic that desperately needs my attention. (Mmmmm, Jack Sparrow)

Comments

[happydisciple.livejournal.com]

[...] Dit slaat als een lul in een bord pap.[...]

Tee-hee, that's one I hadn't heard before. In my family, one comes across "Dat slaat als een lul op een koektrommel/(nat) drumstel", or "[...] kut op Dirk". A quick google also turns up "[...] bord vla". Endless variety, in other words.

No useful translations, though, I'm afraid...

[sierra-le-oli.livejournal.com]

Okay, translations... I can't think of anything better than to embroider on "what's that got to do with the price of fish?". Reasonably popular, more absurd variants are, "what's that got to do with the price of tea in China?" (possibly inspired by phrases like "I wouldn't miss it for all the tea in China"). Google also finds "rice in China", "eggs in Siberia" etc. There's also "what's that got to do with the price of cheese/potatoes/peanuts" and so forth. So the pattern tends to be $foodstuff plus optional $placename.

[sierra-le-oli.livejournal.com]

Oh, and to actually answer the question at the end of your post, I read this recently on Alas, a blog, The author is answering the "what if your mother was pro-choice?" question.

"Yes, if my grandmother had ended that pregnancy, I wouldn't be here. But I wouldn't be able to resent my non-existence, and the rest of the world wouldn't be aware of what it was missing; it's hard to say that anyone would have been worse off. In any case, I clearly am here, so speculating about what if I wasn't is a purely philosophical matter with no practical bearing.

What's more, there are any number of choices that had to be made the way they were in order for me to exist. If either of my parents had chosen a different university, they would never have met and I could never have been conceived, but university choices aren't subject to the same debate that abortion is. That doesn't prove, in itself, that the debate isn't justified, but it does go some way towards demonstrating that "What if your mother was pro-choice?" is a red herring as far as the debate is concerned." Full article.

Your argument about following your parents' careers and fulfilling their dreams is a very good one.

[wingedkami.livejournal.com]

I've seen the same comment in abortion debates. Fortunately that one's easier to answer.

"What if your parents thought the same way as you?"
"They do think the same way as me. They chose to have me."

Not that this makes any difference when you're dealing with people who Know They Are Right. I think the idea is that you're supposed to have a problem with the concept of you not having existed, but I couldn't tell you why this should be a problem. Unless you have a very large ego. Perhaps I've hit on something there?

[the-ladylark.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think the idea is that you're supposed to go 'oh no, then I wouldn't exist! How awful! My poor hypothetical-children, I must conceive you otherwise you will not exist and feel bad about it.'

Or something.

By the way, I have no idea what the word-by-word translation of your phrase is (let alone an equivalent one) but I can think of a traditional saying that would seem apt for the situation:

"If my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather"

[sessifet25.livejournal.com]

"If my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather"

Hee. I'm writing that one down.

[sessifet25.livejournal.com]

That is a nice article. Thanks for the link :)